Furry Writers' Guild Forum

Improving Editing in the Writing Community: How?

At FWA I spoke to several authors and had several conversations about the fandom’s writing, publications, etc. I’ll put several of these opinions in the mouth of a composite, called Ed.

Ed said to me, “I’m not sure what benefit there is for me to be published through the fandom. I have a good online following, fans who really enjoy my work. I’ve published a story through one of the anthologies, and while my online stories get several comments, not one person has said anything to me about my published story. I say this because I don’t see furry pubs giving me much exposure. I don’t need publishing for the money. The real benefit of being published in the fandom for me would be presenting a stellar edited product. Right now, I feel like the fandom’s professional publishing isn’t offering that yet.”

At one Coffee Chat I asked folks how they felt about the fandom’s quality of editing and the response was mixed. And how to improve that? The answers were “Go to writing panels, pro-writing workshops”, and then to shrug and downplay the importance of editors in modern publishing. The topic came up at another Chat and it was more open but there wasn’t a lot of concrete ideas.

I don’t want this to be taken as a slam to publishers here. RV and FP are run by two dedicated people who are too busy selling, shipping, laying out books and wrangling cover artists to do more than a proofread. Nor do they have an on-staff editor - anthologies though do have an editor. Those editors though are volunteer based. Sofawolf has a dedicated editing staff but they put out so few books a year. Beyond that we have Sean who offers to edit for pay, which is great, but there’s only one of him.

In the fandom then, your options for putting out a story are: Edit it yourself, Pay an editor, Have the publisher proof it, be lucky enough to get into Sofawolf, or if you send it to an anthology, it ends up under the eye of a volunteer editor. Because the fandom’s editing then is primarily based on volunteers, the skill is going to be considerably varied. Editors though are pretty important, because we want the books to look good; errors make the writing look bad. Every month I hear a people new to editing expressing interest in starting their own anthology.

But while we have an entire Guild here to help Writers write better, not to mention convention panel after panel dedicated to helping writers, I - as an editor myself - feel there aren’t any resources on how to help an Editor edit. Even if we have one or two fantastic editors in the fandom, we still need something to help the rest of them. As well as authors edit their writing before they get to the editor. I have no formal training, I am learning as I go, and the only places I feel I can turn are wholly outside the guild and fandom. (Also I can’t seem to find many books on being a better editor, and tons of stuff on being a better writer.)

So what can we do to help editors improve, as well as give potential editors a strong heads up? Can we get an editing workshop? Some How-tos by several of the fandom’s editors?

Also I feel it’s important to specify what an editor does. Some seem to have the impression an editor just proofreads and fixes typos. But there are multiple levels of editing. There’s the proofreading. Copyediting is a step above that, where the prose is being edited for word choice, grammar, and overall improvement. Finally there’s content editing, which is looking at narrative structure, characterization, and so on - directing the author on how to improve a story’s basic elements to improve it. My interest is in finding some way to improve both copyediting and content editing within the fandom, because the publishers at least are addressing the proofreading.

Short of “get a degree in composition and rhetoric” or “hey go to a professional writing workshop” (which are of course useful but expensive and not an option for many), I’m hoping someone else has some ideas.

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Thanks for giving me an idea to suggest for RF panels :3

I think that certain kinds of “how to write” books are good for editors as well – the ones that focus on editing and on structure. If you keep seeing the same thing show up in multiple places as this is something editors are looking for it’s a pretty good sign that if you’re an editor, you should be looking for it.

A couple suggestions beyond the staples that keep showing up:

[ul][li]Self-Editing for Fiction Writers, Renni Browne and Dave King – so far the best book about content editing that I’ve come across. Advice about everything from dialogue mechanics to paragraph breaks, and more sophisticated thoughts about style.[/li]
[li]Story: Style, Structure, Substance, and the Principles of Screenwriting, Robert McKee – it’s important to learn about classic story form in an analytical way. So read a good screenwriting book. McKee’s is expensive, but probably the best for non-screenwriters. (Blake Snyder’s Save the Cat! is more accessible, but aggressively formulaic.)[/li][/ul]

I’ve come to beleive that editing is a talent, not a skill. By this I mean that while people can get better at it with effort, there are those who “have it” and those who don’t once you get past a certain level.

Despite years of hard work, I’ve been forced to accept that I don’t.

Poor prose I can fix, yes. Or at least I can to a degree. But the problem is that I’m totally oblivious to things like missed or repeated words and phrases I use over and over again until they drive the reader utterly mad. I’m steadily getting better, especially about the last. But the problem is that I’m improving from a very poor starting point. Therefore, I’ve come to accept that I simply don’t have the eye (or perhaps mindset) for it.

In my case, one of my publishers was driven so batty by reader’s comments (and their own lack of talent at editing) that they actually hired a pro for my upcoming series. So far he’s done a lot to improve my work, and I’m fully and properly grateful. But I also have reason to beleive he’s charging several hundred dollars per volume.

So…

If you can learn to edit your own work-- or find someone who works for free-- then you’ve got a gold mine in your pocket and, congratualtions! You’ve acheived something I at least was never able to manage and your work has the potential for considerably more profit than mine as a result.

I’d also like to add that I think the number one-- perhaps only– factor that seperates Sofawolf from the rest of the furry publishing world at this point in time is a qualified editing staff. I don’t know who’s doing the work but my hat is off to them whoever it is. They do truly excellent work, which I respect all the more for being unable to perform it myself. Those publishing houses who wish to emulate their succeses, in my opinion, should look at improved editing first and foremost.

Hey Rabbit, a trick you might attempt next time is read some of your work outloud. Probably a moot point since your publisher nabbed an editor for you, but sometimes it’s a lot easier to HEAR things like repeated words or phases than to see them. It’s a trick Spirit’s used more than once, and I find myself using from time to time.

I fear that I’m so totally oblivious that even this great trick failed for me. FYI, the best dodge for me personally that I’ve found to date is to upload the manuscript to a Kindle and read it there. I can, however, screw up even that way. Apparently I have an extra-special ungift for editing.

I do appreciate the suggestion, however!

In addition to the books Chip recommended, I also suggest “Eats, Shoots and Leaves” by Lynne Truss. Lynne’s book is both informative and light-hearted for a topic many would find boring. Punctuation seems to be a mystery no man’s land of arguments, so at least give yourself a base knowledge of those funny marks that we use among our words.

Here’s a webpage that discusses how to use commas that I found useful:

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/commas.htm

I still should be referring to some of these: http://theoatmeal.com/tag/grammar
Fun, entertaining, great visual, and some hilarious yet on-the-dot points.

Another tool for self-editing that worked for me, specifically the last short story I finished, was not reading it for close to seven months (it was with the editor). When I got it back and went through it several times I found many issues including flow, logical flow of actions, and just sentences that just plain did not make sense. In more immediate turn around, such as initial deadlines or university due dates, I am near useless with edits and typically do not. That is when I make my partner read it.

What is the process for editing on the publishing side of things? I have noticed a few recent publications did not even seem to be proofread well, but the publishers also have closed submission for all long form fiction. Could part of the problem be there has just been so much growth recently in visibility of fandom fiction that the demand on publishers become too much for the part-time workforce?

That’s one of the good suggestions here:

Oddly enough, that’s what I’m doing with what you posted in the critique forum yesterday. :slight_smile: I’ve found it works better for me with other people’s stuff than my own.

The best process for me is printing things out and editing by hand. Reading aloud helps with flow and rhythm, but it’s also its own skill – as evidenced by going to author readings. Some are very good at reading their own stuff and some are… not so good.

Thank you in advance for looking at my material!

There are a lot of blog posts and online resources on this topic (I’ve just done a quick google for ‘how to edit anthologies’), but as with anything else, quality will be variable and you just have to see what’s out there and whether any of it clicks with you.

The best help for an editor that I can think of, and we’re all doing it anyway, is to be widely read. Then you’ll have a good idea of how stories work, and also if what you’re editing comes too close to a famous work already published, either deliberately or accidentally. (For instance, a friend of mine decided giving his protagonist the name ‘Arthur Dent’ would be nicely inconspicuous.)

Knowing your strengths and weaknesses is a help, too. For instance, I’m pretty hot on typos, grammar, and characters who change name or species halfway through a story, but I’m not so good at the ‘big picture’ stuff, like how to fix a story arc or make an ending stronger.

In general, I hate books on writing, but these are the best ones I’ve found to help with the process of editing:

On Writing by Stephen King. (Seriously, if you read one book on this list, make it this one.)
The Forest for the Trees by Betty Lerner
Self-Editing for Fiction Writers by Browne and King.

That being said, learning to edit your work is brutal. And I mean brutal. You have to be able to take your manuscript–your baby–and cut it to pieces. Killing your darlings is one of the hardest things a writer can do, and not all of them can do it. And it never gets easier, no matter how long you’re at this. If you don’t have to stomach for it, pay an editor. But for the love of all things bright, shiny, and sharp, get it edited by someone!

If you make any progress with this, let me know. I’ve been fighting the “are editors necessary?” fight in this fandom for a few years now.

I guess one question here would be, how does someone become an editor (of books or magazines) in mainstream genre publishing? I’m assuming there are some who get there from a professional path, taking a job at a publisher and working their way up, which would probably be more common in book publishing, and then some who take more of a hands-on path just by starting out reading slush for a magazine and working their way up – but that’s all just conjecture on my part. The point is – at the risk of repeating what was already said in the original post – I don’t think the resources fandom editors need in order to learn or improve are going to be able to come from the fandom, because there aren’t that many mentors or places to learn. So I guess you’d have to talk to other people in the small (and large) press community and find out where they’re getting their knowledge and support…?

I suspect that fight will never go away, unfortunately. We’re putting our self-edited stuff up online and we’re being told it’s terrific, so why do we need editors, right? No matter how tactfully you put it – “Well, your stuff would be even more terrific if…” – it can be a hard sell.

I don’t think that’s exclusive to furry, though – it runs throughout self-publishing. We may have it a bit worse thanks to story archive sites like FA that can generate a whole lot of ego boost without regard to editing quality, though.

I agree that it’s a problem that stretches outside of the fandom as well. Truth be told, and this is what I’ve observed, I don’t believe that the casual reader (the target audience for most fiction) even notices a lot of the issues that come from a poorly-edited story. Why spend the time and money to edit something when most of your audience won’t know the difference?

I actually tried to be an editor for mainstream publications. I went the avenue of how the fandom does anthologies - have an idea, offer to edit it for a publication, ask the publication to support it/publish it. The response was “We don’t know you, we only use in-house editors.”

I’ve talked to small presses and others, and the response was “you have to work with them and get in with them”. Get stories published with them. Get to know the editors personally. It’s about networking and who you know. Also getting hired, etc.

But I disagree with your earlier point. It’s not a matter of mentoring. Because I don’t think people get mentored in person. And I disagree because I would argue that writers improve without direct mentorship.