Furry Writers' Guild Forum

Web Serials?

General Writing Discussion
#1

Okay, I’ve got to ask, dear ladies and gentlemen of The Furry Writer’s guild.

What’s your stance on web serials? As in, posting novel-length work in a serialized format on a personal blog or community sites such as SoFurry?

A part of me does see the appeal. There have been a few cases that have shown web serials do have potential to build a writer’s audience and get some decent feedback. Furthermore, web serials have certainly worked out well in the past for this guild’s very own M.C.A. Hogarth.

However, as much as I see the appeal, I’m compelled to BOGART anything that could possibly grow/expand into a novel-length piece. It’s just feels easier to part with short stories by posting them online than it would be to part with a novel-length work that could be submitted to an agent or publisher instead, you know?

Am I being unreasonable by thinking this?

Would it hurt to try releasing a novel-length web serial?

Or is time possibly spent writing and releasing a web serial on consistent basis better spent preparing a manuscript for the glorious and sacred process of submitting to whichever publishers or agents of one’s choice?

What is your personal stance on web serials, fellow denizens of the guild?

#2

I’m confused. What’s the downside?

People like and respond to free content. Creating content that is released on a regular schedule keeps those people happy and continues to help attract others. You’re writing and getting feedback. You can even take a web-serial novel and publish it later if the publisher likes it (there are examples of this).

So where’s the downside?

#3

Well, Ocean, I heard that publishers look down upon writers that release novel-length web serials on blogs or community sites. I even heard that releasing anything that isn’t short fiction online could damage most writers chances of being picked up for future publication barring the writer self-publishing the collected work via e-book and a few outliers.

…

…

What I’ve heard is BS isn’t it? .v.

#4

Well, I was really inspired by Wildbow’s success with “Worm” and later “Pact”, and he’s moving immediately into his “Twig” project.

While I cannot possibly keep pace with him on wordcount, I embraced the format as a great way to write a novel and very likely produce better from Patreon and Paypal than a publisher would offer me.

Atop that, there’s nothing stopping me from selling that novel later to a publisher, so why wouldn’t I subsidize the writing time AND get immediate feedback while I work?

#5

It has been employed successfully in the case of David Wong’s “John Dies at the End” and its sequel. While I can’t pretend to know what the publishing industry will look like in the future, I expect this sort of thing will become much more common.

#6

So you’re saying if you put out an online novel that was free to read and gained a huge amount of popularity and readership, that the publishers would look away because it’s online for free?

#7

Perhaps some publishers may not want that particular novel to publish, but your later works, sure! After all, if you’ve been successful with your serial, then that’s a big chunk of marketing done already - and that’s great news for a publisher!

#8

It’s not the free part that’s the issue, and it’s not that publishers “look down” on writers who do this; it’s not a moral judgment. It’s a business decision. Most publishers want to buy “first publication rights,” that is, to be the first ones to publish the work. If it’s already appeared online, it’s been published, and those rights are no longer available. Yes, there are counter-examples (and have been for decades, if you look back at self-publishing even before the Internet), but as a general rule this still holds true.

Having said that, though, that doesn’t mean it’s a bad idea. Web serials can do wonders for building a following–maybe a large one, certainly a committed one–and they could certainly bring in an income, through tip jars, Patreon and such. Posting a couple thousand words a week could sustain a nice side revenue stream for a while.

Furthermore, the only sure thing about the publishing industry in 2015 is that there are no sure things about the publishing industry in 2015. Maybe going out and trying to find an agent or a “name brand” publisher isn’t something you’ll want to do for your book; maybe you’ll be better off following the lead of a few successful authors in our own midst and self-publishing. Given that you may be writing a decidedly furry book, maybe you’ll want to submit to FurPlanet or Jaffa Books or the like. There’s a lot of possibilities.

#9

Chipotle has hit the nail right on the head there. Most traditional publishers want first rights. While this doesn’t mean that your work may not get picked up by a traditional publisher, it does make it less likely.

I started off writing a novel length story as a web serial, and yes, it did bring popularity and followers who then stayed on to read other things I did. The main problem is though, as a hobby, this practice is fine. For someone trying to make a career out of writing, it’s problematic. Put simply, a book is a lot of time and effort, and you’re giving that all out for free. Can you justify that?

A piece of advice I got from a writer was to value your time wisely, or in less flattering words, don’t do anything for free.

Of course, that’s extreme, but the gist is if you’re writing good stuff, you should be getting something out of it. I personally do not go for writing stories specifically for sites like FA or even SoFurry, as the former is very quiet and sparse in terms of actual critical feedback. Another thing to consider is that most readers are not literary critics, and your feedback will mostly be “I like this” to simplify. The latter site is more active, but still suffers in feedback. People here give more feedback that is meaningful that those sites.

At the end of the day, you’ve just got to consider whether the time you spend on your web serial is justifying itself by the benefits it’s bringing. Popularity may be good, but also, if most of your readers don’t pay to read, they’re not really supporting you are they?

Anyway, not to put a dampener of this. You could use sites like Patreon and other crowdfunding sites to get things going. I’m certainly considering this after seeing it work. Put because I’m a vain little thing, I’d like to try to get into traditional publishing first. In the meantime, I’m trying to write to things in the fandom so people see my short stories regularly in a publication that had an editorial process.

Still, perhaps the guild should consider hosting some web serials by its members? That would add the layer of editorial process that makes the difference between an anthology and posting without restriction on FA. I’m also going off topic, but we could also have our own publication…

#10

My experience in all this is limited, but still exists. I remember when I was with my ex, he followed a CYOA on the Something Awful forums that I quickly got caught up in as well. It was called Red Yellow Blue and can be found here: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2842418

Yes, the art that’s coupled with it helps greatly, but the writing was incredible. The story became intense, and the author/artist was pure GRRM merciless with the decisions. People were willing to pay real money just to get a second chance, a second ending. Last I heard, the author/artist landed an incredible job they otherwise would never have gotten, all because of the attention Red Yellow Blue got.

Now I want to see if they ever made the sequel >.>

#11

I think the topic is getting a bit confused. From the OP, it’s not clear if you’re asking that:

A) Will posting a web serial hurt my chances of publishing anything with a publisher?
or
B) Will posting a web serial hurt my chances of sending the finished novel that the web serial produces to a publisher?

If you’re asking “A”, then there’s really no downside, so go for it.

If you’re asking “B”, then yes, it will hurt your chances with several publishers, as posting a web serial is a form of self-publishing and thus takes away first publication writers from the publisher (which most require for novel-length work).

Hopefully this clears things up?

#12

Hm!

Well, the answers of Chipotle, Televassi, and Sean really cleared the issue up for me. ovo

Thanks, you three! ^v^

#13

In my limited anecdotal experience, the authors who take the hardest line on this bit of advice tend to be dicks. You know, the ones who wouldn’t dream of putting anything online for free, or spending time writing anything they can’t sell, such as for copyright reasons. And if they are unable to sell something they wrote, they would rather send it on a one-way trip to the file cabinet or the trash can than post it online. They may tend to bristle at the notion of anyone reading their stuff if they haven’t paid for it.

By contrast, authors who are okay with putting at least some of their work out for free, even if only a relatively small fraction of it, don’t display this level of narcissism. I can think of a couple of well-known FWG members who fall into this category.

#14

I think everyone said what I would’ve said, business-wise. If you post a serial and gain a healthy following, then write something ELSE similar, the same genre, or a sequel or prequel or spinoff and submit That to publishers, you’d probably be okay.

For me, it would come down to the matter of, how much time do you have? I would LOVE to put up a serial or a little comic with side stories and backstories of my characters, but right now it’s not a reality, because the free time I have must go to the main work.

So if you have enough time (or can make the time :smiley: ) to do a serial and also prepare a work for traditional publication, I say go for it! I would. If not, I would say decide what your Main dream is and stick with that until you have the time to devote to other projects.

I hope that helps o_O

#15

Well of course some writers do that, but on the flip side you don’t want to be working very hard for nothing. It’s not narcissism to value your time. Writing a novel-length web serial is a lot of work, so you need to make sure it’s doing something for you. If reader’s expect you to produce lots of work for nothing, then that isn’t fair either. The equivalent would be like asking a commissioning artist to do their art for free. Quite simply, it’s pragmatism. You’ve got to feed yourself somehow.

That being said, everyone starts out from somewhere, and you have to be prepared to do things for free in order to get your work out there. A general example is writers pursuing non-paid anthologies, so they then have publications they can mention in covering letters to paid anthologies. It’s a matter of weighing up what works for you. Whilst it would be nice to be altruistic, we’ve got to approach our writing pragmatically too.

For instance, is it better to spend time writing a 5000 word story to post on FA and get about twenty views if you’re lucky, maybe one comment and a favorite? Or is it better to work on a 5000 word story for an free conbook, a unpaid anthology, or a paid anthology? It’s all about finding a balance, making sure your look after your readership (if you’re lucky enough to have one) and looking after your own interests. There’s quite a difference between narcissism and what I was originally talking about. =)