Furry Writers' Guild Forum

Some Thoughts, from an Outsider

General Writing Discussion
#21
  • Is the difference between digitigrade, plantigrade and unguligrades purely cosmetic?
    [/quote]

I hope this formatting works out-- if not my apologies in advance. If it’s not I won’t be able to fix it regardless-- after repeated efforts to make the quoting system work on this and other forums, I’ve come to realize that I Do Not Understand how it works. That said…

My short answer is to the author, yes. Usually purely cosmetic.

Meaning…

Leg anatomy probably affects many things about the character’s personal life-- height, stance, whether or not they can wear human-style high heels… And it can come up, I suppose. But in story terms, for the most part I never find the differences worth mentioning or exploring. To quote the world-renowned and unquestionably authoritative philosopher Mr. Spock, a difference which makes no difference is no difference. As an example… I typically picture my bunny-characters as plantigrade as I write them-- it’s simply my personal preference in imagery. Most of the people who’ve drawn these same characters for covers, etc, automatically draw them as digitgrade, however. I never say anything, because as near as I can tell the trivial anatomical difference makes no difference in how the story needs to be told; it’s an aspect so minor that for me it never rises to plot-point level and therefore is never mentioned.

As an aside, before taking all this to heart you might want also to keep in mind that I’m a tremendous minimalist in describing things, to the point that at least one reviewer has expressed astonishment that he can still visualize my scenes clearly and follow my plots well despite the glaring lack of detail. I also tend not to mention other trivialities such as the color of the character’s eyes, skin color (if human) or in many cases even fur color unless I actively need to. I prefer to personalize my characters in terms of who they are, not what they look like. Besides, physical descriptions bore me to tears and are difficult to remember beyond a page or two anyway, so I assume they’d be an equal burden to my readers and write accordingly.

#22

You know, even though I think you’re right, that would bug me just a little, since “feral” rabbits–like raccoons and bears–aren’t actually digitigrade. :slight_smile:

#23

Modifying the rules of modern sports to include/exclude the use of those body parts? That’s the kind of thing I came here to find – it’s something I would have never given a thought about, I’d probably have ignored its implications on a professional level. Rugby has a rule where you can’t tackle a player above the neck, I guess you could include tails in there? And what about species with tails of different lenght or shape? There are some pretty cool story ideas in that concept.

Wait, if you tend to minimise descriptions won’t your readers rely on the cover to visualise your characters? And what about those cases when it might create some contradictions? If they’re represented as digitigrade, I assume they walk around barefoot – that’s how almost everyone seem to draw them. But what if then they’re shown wearing boots, or dealing with extreme conditions where it would be hazardous not to? Then again I’m really inexperienced about these things, so I might be missing some pieces.

By the way, “Ship’s boy” is not free over here, unluckily, but it’s just one euro. I’m still more than willing to get it as soon as I’m done reading Calvino’s “Six Memos for the Next Millennium” :slight_smile: you got me curious about it.

#24

Oooh my friend, do I have an anthology for you to look into, right here: http://www.anthroaquatic.com/forum/index.php?topic=422.0
Sean specifically requests that stories are written to show why a sport would be different because of anthros being involved :3 Even if you decide it’s too close of a deadline for you to write for it, it might still be worth keeping an eye for when it will be published. I’ve beta read for a couple of the stories that have been accepted for it and can honestly say, based on those alone, that you’re in for a real treat!

#25

Best answer I can give is, read Ship’s Boy and you’ll see how I work things. Showing is far more effective than telling. I’m sorry you have to buy it; my publisher and I both have made efforts to offer it free in Europe too.

#26

It’s free in the UK. You might need to go through ALL THE AMAZONS changing the setting.

#27

Rabbit, a little curious, have you read The Great Gatsby? I’m huge on descriptors, and that book came across as being quite minimalist as compared to what I was used to, yet I still highly enjoyed it. Would your writing be comparable to it?

#28

At first I figured I’d just get it once it’s published, since the subject seems intriguing (Rodeo? How would that work?), but I didn’t feel confident enough to try writing for it. But then I figured, hey, if I joined this forum to learn something new about writing, I should really stop watching from the sidelines. Also, I think I have an idea. I just hope I can actually pull it off, but it’s going to be interesting regardless. It’s about tennis.

I’ve been thinking about a short discussion we had the first time I joined the chat, on the subject of RPing. Isn’t it a risk?

I mean, from a writing perspective. Doesn’t it lead to self-insertion and writing Mary Sues? I know it’s really fun, but once you start working on a story, I always felt like it gets in the way of your ability to write interesting characters. This isn’t an issue specifically related to this fandom, it’s common in almost every other genre (you can tell immediately when a fantasy story drew inspiration from someone’s D&D session), but with the way fursonas seem to work, it looks like it would be extremely easy for a new author to fall into the trap of creating a world where his character is at the center of everything. God knows we already have enough “chosen one” narratives around.

I’m quoting the Wikifur page on fursonas here: “Such characters often did not need to be written into written narratives, but were instead buoyed by being a general-purpose alter-ego for the RPer or costumer”. But from what I’ve seen, they seem to be something more than just an avatar to those who use them, and it’s inevitable that this kind of attachment would influence their narrative. I’ve seen it used for some amazing ideas – David Hopkins’ meta self-insertion as the devil felt like a stroke of genius once I wrapped my head around it, giving me echoes of Pirandello – but most of the times it falls into the usual overpowered, beloved and “special” protagonist that populates most young adult novels. Isn’t having such a personal attachment to a character dangerous?

Please let me know if I’m misrepresenting something – it’s kind of hard to figure things out coming in from the outside, and these are questions that I can’t help but have when thinking about writing.

(and if anyone’s curious, my position on RPing is that it’s really fun once you get in the right mindset with the right people)

#29

Fanfic writers often start off writing versions of themselves in, say, the Star Trek universe, and furry writers often start off writing stories about their own characters. Similarly, furry writers often write fanfic before creating original characters. These stories might not be publishable, and might not ever be seen by anyone other than the author and a close friend or two, but they can be steps on the way to improving as a writer. Like anything else you learn to do, you start off by imitating someone else, consciously or unconsciously, before settling into your own style.

Yes, RPing can have an influence on your writing. But so can what you’re reading, the last movie you watched, the music you’re into - or real life. If you’re not influenced by anything from the world outside your own head, your writing probably won’t be very good…

#30

Woo-hoo! I’m glad you’re trying for it hun! It’s true- the best way to learn after the months of research you’ve been doing is to dive right in.

As for rp’ing, you hit on the very thing that drew me into the fandom thirteen years ago. From my own experience, it depends on the group you fall into and how high of quality is expected within that group. I was lucky enough that when I first got into it, the site I was on was still under 100 members, para-posting and even page-posting was expected, and one-liners were simply ignored. There were even a few rp’s that garnered a sort of unspoken challenge to make posts as long as possible without taking control of another’s character and still make it interesting. It’s quite possible it’s what made me such a description-heavy writer. Also in most group rp’s, it’s difficult to become the center of attention when there are five or ten others who are involved with the story.

This was back when forum rp’s were more of a thing though. You could sit down at your computer after you got home from work and school and take your time replying, even proof-reading your own work before posting it. Then in the morning, you could check to see if anyone else replied and think of how you want to reply throughout the day. A lot of time, care, and pride went into each post, and for me, personally, it helped improve my writing for where I was at that time in my life.

These days, however, chat rp’ing tends to be the way to go. I’ve noticed this trend has led to far shorter posts with far less care given to each reply, because it becomes more a matter of how much you can cram into a given session and you don’t want to keep the others waiting. I noticed just how much this had harmed my writing, making longer stories painfully difficult to pace out and teaching me some wretched ways to cut corners that I’m still trying to unlearn to this very day. Horrible habits can come from this if you’re not careful.

Role playing can be an inspiration though. The magnum opus of sorts that my mate and I are planning out has been in the making for the past 15-20 years, all inspired by a D&D game that he ran for his best friend back in primary school. There are several generations of characters involved, as well as several different races and six or seven planets. While there are a few characters that would be seen as way too overly powered to be rp’ed with in anything other than Exalted (a D&D sort of game for demi-gods), they had their own trials and tribulations, and had to pay their own dues to get to where they are. The story is nothing short of an epic that will take several books to complete, but one I like to think will be a much-loved journey for the reader.

So yes, role playing is a risk. However, if you find the right people who care about quality and putting as much thought into it as you do, you might find yourself pleasently surprised with the inspiration that can be found.

#31

I fear I’ve never read it. Sorry!

#32

In terms of writing, I think RP-ing is a mixed bag. On the one hand, it generates a lot of “writers” who come to me with a complex setting-- no characters, no plot-- and ask “Isn’t this a great idea for a novel?” On the other, I’ve personally generated a novel out of a RP session. The character was a medieval rabbit courier. After playing I couldn’t forget him, so finally I made him post-apocalyptic, created a background culture to account for his presence on a recently ravaged Earth, set up a cross-cultural conflict, and was off and running. So, the eventual result of that RP for me was “Evolutionary Action”, a novel I’m pleased with.

I guess the moral is that the human mind is a wonderful thing, and one form of play often leads to another. But, to produce a pleasant, structured result the effort must be structured and carefully guided as well.

#33

No worries! I highly recommend it for folks who prefer a more minimalistic style that still conveys all it needs to get the full beauty of the story across. It’s wonderfully tragic :3

#34

I think there’s something interesting in these two quotes. You both come to the conclusion that it can be both a risk and an inspiration, Munchkin starting from a positive outlook and Rabbit from a negative one – what’s really curious though is that Munchkin, who started with RPing and then focused on writing, ended up loving descriptions, and Rabbit, who had the opposite experience, turned out to be relying on minimalism. I’m oversimplifying, but that’s pretty cool. At least I think it’s cool.

Maybe it’s because RPing forces you to try to make a world feel as real and alive as possible, while not having enough space to properly portray a society means having to rely on impressive visuals? I do agree with what Rabbit said, most of the times people tend to be all setting and no plot. I also just realised how limited my RPing experience really is. Oh well, in the end we all have a different story.