Furry Writers' Guild Forum

Is 'furry' a genre?

This is something that ended up coming up in the shoutbox briefly, so I figured I would make a thread about it and get your thoughts on it.

Do you consider furry to be a genre all on it’s own? Do you think it can all be classified as sci-fi or fantasy in some way? Or do you think it’s simply a sub-genre that can just be tacked onto the genre it’s portraying?

While I think it’s more or less a sub-genre, I think ‘furry’ is slowly starting to creep its way into becoming its own genre. I don’t think it’ll become a mainstream genre term by any means, but I definitely think there will soon be enough of it that some standards may classify it as its own genre.

I think there are two ways of looking at it…

  1. Furry as a subgenre of fantasy/science fiction (since you’re dealing with anthro animals that don’t exist in the real world)
  2. Furry as a category of fiction

I’ve heard the term “metagenre” used, but other than sounding clever I don’t think that’s really useful.

When people say furry’s a genre, what they usually seem to mean is that there can be furry stories with science fiction settings, western settings, contemporary romance, epic fantasy, etc. But for that meaning, I think “category” would actually be the correct term. For example, YA fiction is a category, not a genre – there are young adult fantasy books, young adult romance, young adult contemporary, etc.

I still think of furry as part of the larger sf/f world – because 9 times out of 10, if you’re going to sell furry fiction outside the fandom, it’s going to be to sf/f markets and publishers – but within the confines of the furry fandom I can understand people seeing it as a category instead.

It’s certainly a tough one to place.

You could argue that all furry fiction falls under the fantasy genre. After all, it consists of anthropomorphic talking animals, the likes of which (sadly) do not exist in the real world. Thus it is a piece of fantasy (moreso if said anthropomorphic animals are mythological in nature - dragons, gryphons, etc). Just looking at it from this angle, then yes, furry is a sub-genre, falling into fantasy.

HOWEVER.

Take, for example, the Dev & Lee series by Kyell Gold. Could you honestly call that a fantasy story? No. It’s a sports story with strong romance elements. But the main characters are a fox and a tiger. But it is certainly not a fantasy.
Take also the works of Bernard Doove (Chakat Goldfur). His works are usually strongly science fiction, and not fantasy.

Furry works are as varied as anything else out there, with the only element in common being the fact that they feature anthropomorphic animals. It doesn’t seem right to consider them all fantasy pieces. So in that regard, then yes, furry fiction is its own genre, and is capable of branching out into pretty much all others.

When it all comes down to it, furry fiction is just precisely that. It is furry fiction, and that’s the only label it really needs.

In my opinion, furry is best thought of as a meta-genre. That is to say, it may apply to a work of any other genre, whether it be romance, western, science fiction, fantasy, horror, and so forth, where some of the characters are animals displaying some degree of anthropomorphism. In most cases, the work remains a work of its primary genre, e.g. Out of Position is a gay romance, Sixes Wild is a western, and so forth. I don’t know if it’s possible for a work to be just a furry work without also being one of these other genres.

Furry is an aesthetic. It has certain descriptive trappings that you layer over everything, but it does not change the story’s genre. Furry really doesn’t really have its own tropes, aside from say, ‘origin story’ or ‘species related stereotypes’.

It’s the narrative equivalent of a visual style.

By that argument, then Toy Story, The Lego Movie or The Brave Little Toaster are fantasy, because inanimate objects do not talk either. But I don’t ever see them classified or talked about as such. They’re just "Children’s movies - Adventure’.

I think an important point to be made here, overall, is that to us in the fandom, it’s so completely normal and common to see books and art of, you know, six-foot-tall foxes and tigers and whatnot, that we’re not really paying that much attention to it anymore – but to readers who don’t see animal characters every day the way we do (outside of cartoon characters, maybe), it might still look very much like fantasy or science fiction. (Although they’re more likely to think it’s children’s material first, and fantasy second.) So the trappings that look to us like they don’t have anything to do with genre might look different to those coming to them from outside the fandom.

My argument though is that, are there not specific things that qualify something as a genre? If so, then furry has to meet those qualifications to be a genre. If you call it genre x when it very clearly shares no similarities with anything else in x genre, then genre starts to lose all meaning.

“Looks like” doesn’t cut it. Otherwise anyone can say anything is its own genre because it ‘looks like it’ to them. I.e. fiction with female main characters is a genre.

I mean, if I took any story and changed it to mention all characters wore a fez, then called it fezpunk, would it be its own genre?

Well, I’d say that if the furry elements of your story are no different than putting a hat on somebody, you’re doing it wrong anyway. :stuck_out_tongue:

There’s a lot of gray area in how to define any genre or subgenre. And it’s worth remembering that the only real point of genre or subgenre is for things to fit in boxes so readers who like a particular thing can easily find more stuff similar to it in the bookstore or on the website. And if enough people started reading or writing fezpunk, it might well become a thing, a genre of fiction where people’s hats are described in excruciating detail, or whatever. In other words, it’s not so neatly academic and criteria-based, though writers and critics can try to make it that way. It’s more of an organic thing. (Right now, for example, there’s a new category being born called New Adult, aimed smack dab between young adult readers and adults, categorized by having characters who are just out of college, entering the adult world for the first time, dealing with life on their own, etc. Nobody really spearheaded this; it’s just kind of developed from works that got readers’ attention and writers creating more of it in response to an apparent demand.)

My point above, though, was in defense of furry as a subgenre of f/sf, pointing out that to most people, talking bipedal animal characters would fall pretty squarely in “imaginary creature” (and therefore sf/f, which involves imaginary things that aren’t currently possible in the world as we know it) territory outside the fandom (unless you’re getting into political commentary or satire with something like Animal Farm). To some extent, genre is kind of defined by how things look – and last I saw, for example, books with vampire or dinosaur detectives tended to be shelved in f/sf, and not in mystery. The mystery elements might all be there just the same as mysteries starring humans, but the addition of an imaginary creature puts it under the speculative genres anyway.

As another potential facet, I remember hashing this out on the old forums (or in forums somewhere; can’t remember if it was FWG or FA) years ago with ScottyDM, and he proposed the notion that furry is a character-based genre, with the main definition and requirement being an anthro animal protagonist. So there’s that.

Really, though, as much as I have my opinions on this, I have to admit I’ve come to see it as a fairly pointless debate in practical terms. Among the fandom’s readers, I doubt anybody truly cares about the finer points of how to define genre or category and where furry fits into the larger world of fiction. The furry publishers can classify things under their subgenres and sub-subgenres – furry fantasy or furry science fiction or furry steampunk or whatever – and since furry isn’t side-by-side with mainstream fiction in their catalogs, there’s no real reason to worry about where it fits. So inside the fandom, furry gets treated as a category of fiction.

Where it only really matters, IMO, is if you’re trying to sell or explain furry fiction to editors or readers outside the fandom, and people are looking at this thing you’ve handed them (literally or metaphorically) and trying to figure out where to put it. You could probably explain furry as a category and eventually make some headway, but I tend to prefer the path of least resistance, and given that the furry fandom itself grew up out of the science fiction fandom, and that readers who can accept talking dragons and werewolves and the like tend to be more receptive to talking animal characters than readers who prefer things more realistic, that’s still the larger umbrella that makes the most sense to me when I’m talking to someone who doesn’t know what furry fiction is.

Well A) I was being simplistic to illustrate a point, and B) I would disagree, but we have, and will, constantly argue about that until Furry writing is a dieing ember. :stuck_out_tongue: Even if I see that as another one of those pointless debates.

There's a lot of gray area in how to define any genre or subgenre. And it's worth remembering that the only real point of genre or subgenre is for things to fit in boxes so readers who like a particular thing can easily find more stuff similar to it in the bookstore or on the website.
I would retort that it's relevant to editors and publishers too. I mean, if I submitted a furry story to a sci-fi magazine/anthology, and the only sci-fi element is the furries, they'd likely say No. The same goes with genre and subgenre. I saw an anthology that advertised "Alternative History" but it said "No Alternative Fantasy". I asked what the difference was; Alternative history is when you make a change to [period fiction] that Greatly Impacts the events of history. Alternative Fantasy is when you change an element of history, but it doesn't Alter the Course of history (for instance, if Abraham Lincoln was an alien, but this was secret and all his decisions that impacted the United States stayed the same, then it's Alt. Fantasy).

If Genre only matters to A) Marketing to readers and B) Writers, then really all this is is us exercising B, because we already have our market.

My point above, though, was in defense of furry as a subgenre of f/sf, pointing out that to most people, talking bipedal animal characters would fall pretty squarely in "imaginary creature" (and therefore sf/f, which involves imaginary things that aren't currently possible in the world as we know it) territory outside the fandom (unless you're getting into political commentary or satire with something like Animal Farm). To some extent, genre is kind of defined by how things look -- and last I saw, for example, books with vampire or dinosaur detectives tended to be shelved in f/sf, and not in mystery. The mystery elements might all be there just the same as mysteries starring humans, but the addition of an imaginary creature puts it under the speculative genres anyway.
I think that's more a matter of bookstore logistics. The fiction sections of book stores as far as I can tell has gotten smaller and smaller (because bookstores have to sell tons of other crap in order to stay afloat) so many don't have the space to separate everything, but some do. I mean, I've seen bookstores with a Romance section AND a Paranormal Romance section (rather than shelving the PR in with SF/F). Some stores shelve Horror in with the SF/F, others shelve it in General Fiction and very few these days have a Horror section. Is that because the store sees horror belonging in those genres, or because they just don't see the need to shelve horror by itselfe?

But I would point out that anthros pretty much appear in most non-fandom genres. Fantasy? Redwall. Sci Fi? Most space-faring worlds have at least one animal-people race. Classics? Animal Farm, Aesop’s Fables, Watership Down, Wind in the Willows. Children’s lit? Scads. Even Paranormal Romance has quite a few sapient animals or animals-in-human-form having hot lovings with humans.

Oh, I disagree. Give us another couple decades, and I think furry will indeed be a mainstream genre. In fact, arguably, that should be long term goal of a group like this.

I feel as though a better goal would be to introduce ‘furry’ into existing genres to the point where it becomes something that isn’t seen as weird, but rather a norm within the genre. Trying to get furry as its own genre in the mainstream would just be putting another segregating label on it.

I’d love to see it recognized more within sf/f as a legitimate subgenre, and I think that’s something that’s well within reach in a matter of years, not even decades, as well as something that the FWG can potentially take an ambassador role with. (From there, the world.) :slight_smile:

Still, regardless of whether furry fiction constitutes a genre, subgenre, metagenre, or category, I think it certainly has potential to move beyond the bubble of the fandom to a wider readership of some kind. (I’d wondered before whether furry could potentially become the next big thing to branch out of either the paranormal romance trend or within the young adult category, though it looks like YA might be moving more toward contemporary/realistic fiction at the moment as the dyslit and paranormal trends are waning. Never know, though.)

Meta-genre, as much as I’d like for this not to be the case. It’s the only logical place the argument can end up, I think, even though I once argued differently.

I still feel “category” is the most accurate term, as evidenced by YA being called a category – an umbrella that covers various genres. A category like YA also tends to be defined by its protagonists instead of the trappings of genre – teen protags in YA, and anthro animals in furry.

That said, there are still a lot of people referring to YA as a genre, so I don’t hold out a lot of hope for this catching on, as correct as it might seem to me. ::slight_smile:

I think you had something going with that Fezpunk thing! ::slight_smile:

Genre vs. Category implies that a genre is “what the book is about” while a category is “what the book/its audience is”. On this basis, furry can be both a category and a genre.

All fiction which contains furry characters of any significance falls into the furry category. But for a work to be furry genre, the characters’ furry nature must be relevant to the plot.

To take one example: a sports romance story involving an anthropomorphic fox and a tiger might be furry category. It has these beautiful characters, lovingly described - but so what? It doesn’t impact the story, which is “boy/girl loves boy/girl”. Now, if the tiger is replaced by a rabbit, and there’s tension over whether the fox’s family eats him, it becomes furry genre - and the same if he’s battling against the limits placed on him by the genetic engineering through which he was created.

Furry publishers tend to take works within the furry category without regard to the genre. However, a particularly furry anthology might contain works which focus on the genre, or category works which focus on another genre.

Maus is a furry category work because it involves furry characters. But the plot has nothing to do with them being furry, so it is not furry genre.

Inherit the Earth is furry category because it involves furry characters. It is also furry genre, because the creation of the furries by humans is a significant, recurring sub-plot.