Furry Writers' Guild Forum

Elements of Our Reality in Furry Stories - Does this bother you?

General Writing Discussion
#1

Sometimes when I’m helping edit a story (like for an anthology) I will see remarks by other editors. One trend that I’ve seen is that in a furry story, when someone references something specific to our reality - Japan, Starbucks, ipads - the editor specifically says to change that.

My question is, does it bother you or break your suspension of disbelief to see specific real-world things referenced in a Furry story? Why or why not?

I prefer Earth-specifics unless the author makes the effort to detail the thing. I’ll give two examples why.

  1. Let’s say we have a character who has a Scottish accent. Since I can’t use Earth names, I have to call the place something else, like Sunland. Saying, “The character spoke with a Sunland accent” provides the reader with no information aside from the fact Sunland is a location this character is from. In order to let them know, I have to go to some lengths to get across Sunland=Scotland - the character has to mention Haggis and listen to bagpipe music - or I try to phonically represent a Scottish accent with “oy yuu thar lass”, which I aggressively oppose. Or I could just say “The character spoke with a Scottish accent.” This would be moot if Sunland was important to the story and thus described, but if the only connection to Sunland is the character’s accent/identity, then more detail is required.

And I know the topic of Names will come up, but that’s a little bit more difficult - I’ve noticed a strong habit of Furry writing to avoid Earth names entirely, and even Earth names aren’t as reliable. It’s rather hard to tell the difference between an American, a Brit and an Aussie based by their names for instance. You give someone a foreign last name and the reader may very well need to Google them if they want to get an idea of where they came from - which is drawing the reader Away from your story just to find out a detail you could have just Told them.

  1. The location of the scene: “The characters meet at Starbucks.” I see this, and I have an instant picture in my mind. A “trendy” coffee chain that is everywhere with overpriced coffee, and there are certain attitudes or biases that go along with it, certain things you can Say about a person if they go to Starbucks. If I see “The characters meet at Java Kings” and this is our location, then unless the author goes on to describe what Java Kings looks like, I’m in the dark. All I know is that they serve coffee - not whether it’s a chain or a small business, trendy or traditional, etc. Those details may not be important to the story, but without some detail, then our characters are sitting in a void. Atleast when Starbucks, you say Starbucks and now I have all the details I need.

This problem also extends to species. Many species names are tied to Earth locations. The worst culprit is the African Wild Dog. They have alternate names - African Hunting Dog, African Painted Dog, Cape Hunting Dog. There are others - painted dog, ornate wolf - but those are so vague and infrequently used that your reader likely isn’t going to get that you’re talking about an African Wild Dog.

Bottom line: Unless the author goes into detail over what a non-Earth name is, there’s not a lot of context to go on. Which is great if that non-Earth name is important to the story. If those details aren’t significant, then going into detail on them Just so the reader knows “x is analog to y on Earth” is unnecessary. And spending text jumping through those hoops is wasteful.

#2

Unless I’m specifically writing in an alternate reality, I go right ahead and use names and events from ours. I see most furry stories I write as funny-animal comic books without the pictures, so yes there’s Starbucks, there’s Japan, there’s Hitler (though what species he might be is a topic for another thread).

I notice that Kyell Gold does change things around - like using ‘Gallia’ for somewhere that’s clearly France- and that tends to break my suspension of disbelief much more than if he’d gone right ahead and said France.

He also avoids having domestic cat and dog characters, since who bred them? That’s another can of worms, and one I tend to ignore because I like me some cats and dogs :slight_smile:

#3

Hey there, Rechan!

Those are pretty interesting considerations. I think the best marker of whether or not to use “Earth reality” names is the audience you’re writing for and the story you’re trying to tell. If the off-handed use of place names from our reality allows us to establish a quick sense of context within the reader without harming the integrity of the setting too much, then I don’t see the issue with it.

That being said, it might be a fun exercise to imagine just how the world (even if it’s basically our Earth with furries) might be different with a host of different species with different dietary, environmental and other needs. I like adding bits of furry-specific flavor to the world just to make it feel a bit richer; a cat might get a coffee drink with cream and no sugar (since – according to my understanding) they can’t pick up on sweetness and respond to fat quite well, while a rabbit will get your candy coffee drink (with no cream) because they tend to have a massive sweet tooth. Maybe there are canine-specific blends or menu options within Starbucks to make sure that they get a shot of caffeine without having to get chocolate or coffee. Stuff like that.

You just have to think about this sort of thing, and how deep down the rabbit hole you’re willing to go within the confines of the story. In short stories, it’s frequently not worth it to use limited space to explain the context around a thing you’re making up from whole-cloth, but in a novel-length tale it might be enriching to dive into it a little bit.

#4

As a reader, I actually enjoy seeing points of our universe within the furry one. Really, fans of the furry community do imagine themselves as anthros and the world around them as a furry place, from my understanding. Plus, if one were to read something like Kyell Gold’s Out of Position series, the reader would references to Starbucks and Coffee Bean stores throughout (but he’s Kyell Gold, so…!).

As a writer, what I think it falls down to is breaking the reader out of the story. If Starbucks comes up in a way that breaks readers from the world that they have fallen into, then it shouldn’t be in there, and the characters can maybe sell the flavor of what the store, location, or item is through dialogue or such instead. Definitely, though, the need for unnecessary description or exposition can be rougher than including a simple name instead o.x Also, dialects that are very specific can be very tricky. If it breaks readers out of the story to explain, change it, but if the dialect can’t be used by name, maybe the dialogue can be altered. That’s how I would handle it, at least.

#5

Most of my work is based in the future of this world, so I don’t have the problem. When I write “urban fantasy”, which features worlds very much liek this one save for the presence of magic, I still tend to leave everything the same except for that which explicitly must be different. Only if I were writing about “A long time ago in a galaxy far away” would I worry about the issue. Then yes, it becomes an issue. A car can still be a car, but it can’t be a 1968 Dart convertible. Or at least that’s my own .02 worth

#6

I usually keep things vague when possible, but (almost) all of my stories take place on Earth, even if this isn’t readily apparent. If the situation demands it, I have no problem mentioning the fact.

I would be of the opinion that it’s acceptable to use the standard name of a thing unless it adds something to the story to do otherwise. It should not be done in cases where it succeeds only in confusing the reader.

#7

I find my suspension of disbelief is stretched when you start to use very specific things or people. Using an actor/actress, a politician, a certain movie, a band, etc. You’re directly conflicting with my knowledge of said group/person/etc. Filling a Starbucks with a bunch of furries is more plausible than making the current president an anthro. The business is a shell that can be filled, the latter is something that has to be directly changed in your mind. Comics, television shows and other serial mediums tend to use less impersonal versions of these specifics, at the most they’ll tend to reflect a similar person of who they’re copying but not reference the person directly (for example they’ll show a black man as president, but will not call him Obama).

#8

I’m going to agree with Ocean here. I don’t mind mention of things like Starbucks, but at the same point, if you mention it, or a movie star without any ‘furryization’, then it pulls me out and I have to spend a moment or so getting back in. Yet if someone puts a furry element into a celebrity’s name, then for whatever reason, it’s okay to my mind.

#9

Me too. Mostly because I love terrible puns.

StarBUCKs?

#10

Ba-doom-tish!

I’m the same way, I often take what could be called the ‘Hanna-Barbera’ approach where I’ll furry up famous names. As an example: in a story that took place at a TV station an older character brings up ‘Mewcille Ball’ and ‘Droopy Sales.’ One story took place in “Oklahowlma City” :smiley: These could be in what I would refer to as “Earth-F” where its like our world but furry.

A few stories take place in a universe where we blew it all up and The Furries Inherited The Earth, in those I do refer to present-day locations: “in what was once Dallas.”

As for names, I use ordinary names for characters unless its a fantasy setting.

As for ‘real elements’ pulling me out of the story, unless the author is blatantly doing it to make a point about something that happened IRL, it usually doesn’t bother me.

#11

If an editor told me that I had to furryize names, or otherwise falsify names like “Scotland” or “Starbucks”, I would probably say, “No,” to the first case, and “Okay,” to the second case.

I’m pretty sure you need to get permission to use trademarked names, at least if the company’s usage guidelines say so, although probably only if you’re doing a big enough thing to make anyone notice. (In my Hawk stories, my namesake character drives a Ford Mustang GT500, a Hummer H1 Alpha, and a resto-modded Aston Martin Lagonda Series 2 - I haven’t bothered asking any of these companies for permission. I just write porn on the internet.)

You could say that someone drives an old Ford Taurus, or you could say they drive a rusty old mom-sedan with a noisy muffler and a saggy back suspension. You could drink a mixed-liquor cocktail, or you could drink a long island iced tea. Neither one is really wrong. Maybe a combination of both is the best; a real name to help those who know it, and a short description for those who don’t. (And if you’re doing a parody, you can drive a Fnord and get your coffee at the Mooncash coffee shop, argh.) Maybe a character goes to Starbucks not just to go to a trendy chain coffee shop that are as common as dandelions in summer, but maybe he specifically goes to Starbucks because he likes their charcoal-esque Italian Roast; that’s a legitimate thing, but trying to make up analogs just because? It doesn’t wash with me most of the time.

In that line, why make up a place to stand-in for Scotland? Furry writing is what you make it to be. Is it complete fantasy? Then make up some middle-earthy place. Is it slice of life modern fiction? Then it can take place in Ann Arbor, New York City, Dubai, on the Great Wall of China, whatever.

#12

Rechan mentioned species names based on real world locations. A similar problem area is species whose name includes the name of a person, e.g. Thomson’s gazelle, Abert’s squirrel. If you used one of these in an all-furry universe, how do you explain who Thomson or Abert is? Do some furries avoid these species just so they don’t have to address the issue? One may also have species whose species name is not obviously distinct from another better known or more generic species. For example, I’m currently working on a story with a red wolf character, and I find myself wondering how to let the reader know she’s a red wolf, the species, and not just a wolf who happens to be red, or whether I should just not worry too much about it.

#13

This was an issue of contention in a recent story I submitted, which dealt with furry analogues to real people in real places as part of a subplot. I had furry analogue names for a few things, but they just didn’t fit and beta readers strongly suggested I go all one way or another.
The thing was in New York, the tone was serious and I find that most furry analogue names tend to be a bit silly in their attempts to rhyme or resemble the celebrity while being animalistic. “Hey, Hughe Jackalope filed off his horns to play the Wolverine in X-mammals. That’s commitment for you.”
Other than being a bit goofy, which compromises tone, it runs into the same beef I have with any story that has a mister fox or missus rabbit. If this character is called ‘fox’ or ‘rabbit’ than what are all the other characters who are foxes or rabbits called? So no Micheal Jackrabbit for me if I can help it.

That said, I agree with those who have suggested that you can leave real-world items alone if they are background elements that don’t interact with the story in any way that compromises the real person. I only see the necessary use of analogue critter names when doing otherwise can land you in trouble. I wouldn’t write about some aspiring actor/actress acoring an erotic encounter with Justin Timberlake, but I would feel safe making an offhand reference to Justin Timberwolf. Dogs all know he’s a great dancer and kinda hot.

#14

Agreed, its all about maintaining tone. Most of my stories tend to be humorous and so the Hanna-Barbera thing fits, but I can see where overdoing it would grate in a more serious work. To borrow the example: “Hey, Hughe Jackalope filed off his horns for his latest role. That’s commitment for you.”

It lets the reader know we’re on “Earth-F” without beating them over the head with it to the point of being silly.

#15

I’ve used alternate names for nationalities in my works (Someraphon for Russia, Lakaya for England, etc.), though because I’ve been narrating my story, it’s pretty easy to let the consumer know what kinds of parallels I’m trying to draw.

However, I still use the words ‘tiger,’ ‘panther,’ ‘cougar’ to describe the different feliniod lines on the world I’m writing mostly to keep the reader from being too bogged down in having to learn a new language. Doing this doesn’t really bother me, because I feel if you have to ‘De-Earthify’ everything in your story, you’re going to lose your reader, especially if the renaming feels forced.

#16

While it’s horrible to say “it depends on context,” well… :stuck_out_tongue:

I recently did a period piece in which all the names are Earth names, in part for the reason that Rechan mentioned in the original post with the Scotland/Sunland example. If you’ve made it an important plot point that a character’s from Scotland or Hawaii or what have you, you’re going to have to go through distracting contortions to use a different name. In some stories, though, that really isn’t important, so it may depend on what effect you want. I have a superhero serial I’m eventually going to get back to and finish (unpublished so far) which is almost our world, but the United States is “Camra,” the Soviet Union is the “Strazh Republic,” and so on – similar to what Dalan’s mentioned. The rationale for that is that the reader is immediately going to wonder whether there are more differences than just names, and indeed there are.

The question of race names – do you call them foxes, or do you call them Vraini? – is another huge can of worms. I’ve taken some heat for giving the furry races distinct names in the Ranea stories, but, well. They have wolves of the “four footed and not sapient” variety as well as wolves of the “I could ask her out on a date” variety, and it makes sense that there’d be a linguistic distinction. (And they really are separate races with separate histories – and thus separate languages.)

#17

That’s like a Milton Jones joke right there.

#18

One question I’d ask, and this has been a challenge for a some writers, what do you call species like German shepherds or Yorkshire terriers in worlds where the nations we live in don’t exist? Do you find some equivalent that you hope the reader will understand or just try to leave them out altogether.

#19

A lot of people said what I was going to say: that there’s a lot of give and take when it comes to implementing elements of reality in furry stories. As a rule of thumb, I’m inspired by reality to create realistic fiction. In other words, I find it more efficient to get inspired by reality instead of lifting directly from it. Because we write anthropomorphic fiction, we’ve already disqualified ourselves from depicting reality accurately – so what do we do? We take something that currently exists, give it a unique touch, and use our creative license to expand on it.

However, I urge writers to exercise caution when giving certain identifiable species new classifications. If you’re going to take the time to explain the species brick-by-brick, great! But the explanations could easily disrupt the flow of your story, especially if your story doesn’t call for a thorough breakdown of a species’ physical and psychological traits.

#20

I used to be all about the cute alterations on Earth-names, like a tpod instead of an ipod, etc. But then I realized how much that is clearly the author winking to the audience, it’s too overt, so I don’t do it anymore unless the piece is clearly meant to be humorous.

This is one of those weird things that pops up with furry lit. In general, I’ve noticed very few people talk about the non-anthro animals in the world unless it’s very plot or setting related. If there are anthro wolves, there generally aren’t non-anthro wolves. And no one ever talks about what the anthros eat. I put out a book where the main character, a coyote, has a pet non-anthro cat and that apparently threw a lot of people.