Furry Writers' Guild Forum

2014 Debate Thread

FWG Ideas and Feedback Guild Election
#41

I agree with this and with Sean–that you want to include people, and help them become better writers. Since semantics IS important to most people (self included) what about ‘Apprentice’ status for unpublished writers who want publication and ‘Associate Member’ for those who are skilled but unpublished? I agree that there is fine fiction out there that is unpublished (by a third party) and that not all people are interested in that.

But I also agree that it shows a certain level of commitment, professionalism, risk, and exploration to seek publication. It shows a willingness to take critique from an editor, cooperate with a third party and perhaps improve your work in ways you hadn’t thought about. It shows that you’re part of a community. For people who are skilled writers, but are unpublished and aren’t concerned about publishing, could earn their membership status in another way–by mentoring?

I understand that the mentor program didn’t take off; many published writers (speaking for myself) and Especially self-published writers want to be involved and mentor and help–but the thought of having One More Thing To Do is daunting. Some people just want to be involved, some people have an honest-to-goodness ‘What’s in it for me?’ attitude if they’re going to get involved with yet another Thing. (I include myself in that, not in a snobby way at all, and I hope it doesn’t read that way. I’m a mix of “I want to be involved!” Plus, “what’s in it for me?” )

To Wrap Up: @Both-- what incentives are there to strive for Guild Membership–what prestige does it give, exposure, etc, and what more could you/we do to ensure it is something worth striving for? Ie; could someone say “I’m a Furry Guild Apprentice Member” in a Query to Sofawolf (or whoever) and have a leg up over anyone else? (The way saying "I’m a member of the SFWA gives you a leg up?)

#42

Well, for my part, as I said in my campaign announcement, I don’t have any plans to change the current membership levels, and I think any changes to them should have to be voted on and approved by the membership anyway, instead of being done unilaterally.

As far as incentives, the current ones are being listed as members (again, the aspect of ‘readers, these are people worth checking out’ mentioned above), private forums, and being able to nominate/vote in the Coyotls. There’s some degree of promotion for one’s work in terms of occasional retweets and such, but I want to try to improve that.

As far as what more we can do to ensure it’s worth striving for, I think the first step is directly soliciting feedback from and improving communication with members, so we have a better idea of what the members need and want and how to serve them best, instead of making assumptions that might or might not be correct and potentially wasting time and effort on things that aren’t important to them.

Right now, no, membership in the FWG doesn’t give you a leg up on anyone (though it’s not like SFWA membership automatically gets your work a free ride with editors or agents either – if the work isn’t good, it doesn’t matter what you’re a member of) – but I think it at least has the potential to mean something in terms of confirming that the writer is someone worth looking closely at and someone who takes their work and their craft seriously, both in terms of the craft of writing and being professional to work with in terms of publishing.

#43

As of right now, as Poetigress has said, there is no ‘leg up’ for being a member. I think that a lot of us agree that it’s one of the main reasons for member inactivity. And you’re right; the mentor/mentee program failed because there wasn’t a real answer to the question of “what’s in it for me?” The knowledge that you’ve helped a newer writer towards their desired writing path wasn’t enough for most, and thus it was seen as more of a chore than a group project. For this reason, I’m sorry to say, I really doubt the program will ever go anywhere. I would like to revisit, but until we can get even 15% of the active guild members to participate, I don’t see it happening.

I think that a lot of guild members, in a way, do have a bit of a leg up when it comes to publishers. Now, I don’t wish to speak for them directly, but I’ve worked with editors in other small publishers that would give a lot more attention to work from a writer who had been published before than they would give to a non-published writer. It would be cool if, down the road, we could talk to the publishers and get them to do something such as 5% off for guild members.

As for Basic (or Apprentice–my membership levels names are still very much up for debate) Members, it would be nice if they were able to mention that they’re being helped by more experienced authors in order to get a leg up in the decisions making. But sadly, I doubt that will ever be the case.

I guess, in short, I’d like to get the publishers to recognize the guild a bit more and have that impact at least their place in line a bit, but it’s totally up to them. I’d like to make more available on the guild’s end as perks, such as exlcusive projects and contests, but without the activity, it just can’t happen. We need to get more members involved, first. That’s why I’m looking to help develop more writers towards becoming members.

Sorry if this is a bit of a round-a-bout answer!

#44

That’s not a change. That’s how the awards work already. Did you even see my post above? A third of the pieces that have won Coyotls so far were self-published.

#45

I’m also wondering if part of the problem was just a feeling of not too much obligation, but too much forced obligation for the mentors. I’m all for helping newer writers, and I know there are a couple writers who consider me as either being or having been a mentor to them – but that relationship was something that developed naturally over time, out of our interaction, and wasn’t something I felt obligated to continue for any external structured-type reason.

Sean’s edit: I apparently hit the ‘modify’ button on your post instead of quote. I hadn’t copied your ‘catch-22 comment’ about no activity without incentives, but no incentives without activity. Really sorry!

Okay, let’s see if I can remember, more or less…

I'd like to make more available on the guild's end as perks, such as exlcusive projects and contests, but without the activity, it just can't happen. We need to get more members involved, first.

Of course, there’s something of a catch-22 there. Members aren’t going to be interested in being involved unless there are things that appeal to them to be involved in.

#46

@both - As a writer who will be seeing their first furry stories see print this year, what are my incentives to join the Furry Writer’s Guild? (I suppose both now, immediate future after election and for the future you’d like the guild to reach) I don’t mean this as anything demeaning to the guild in anyway, but the more I look at it, membership (or advanced membership wiht Sean’s new structure) means I get to have my name on the list of members, access to the members only section of the forum, and some voting rights?

#47

At this time, yes, that’s what it means. In the future, I definitely want to have more projects (like anthologies), perks (possible publisher discounts, maybe even discounts for other types of writing-related services), and promotional opportunities (things like newsletters and group readings at cons) available to members – but again, before I cook up a whole bunch of projects and make promises I might not be able to keep, I’d rather find out what the membership wants and needs, take that as a starting point, and develop ideas from there. My main focus for my term, at least at first, is going to be getting the infrastructure of the guild firmly in place, with improvements to the website and reviving the Coyotls – in other words, looking after what we already have – and then building on that with new projects that would be at least partially, if not wholly, based on member feedback.

#48

You asked how an author would win an award without being published. I don’t consider posting a story on FA to be ‘self-publishing’.

I hoped that by allowing the mentors to switch mentees when they felt that the mentee has learned all they can from them (or for when the pairings just didn’t work out) that it would help to keep things fresh. Apparently not.

#49

I suppose I’d rather have to agree with Poetigress, but add that I have attempted to ask the members what they want out of the guild on several occasions with no response. Not having any sort of contact information for close to a fifth of the guild doesn’t really help that matter.
That’s about it for right now, but an agenda that we both have is to revive the Coyotl Awards in some fashion. A lot of the process there is Advanced Member-only. With this key transitional time in the guild, it’s hard to say what kind of projects can arise. My thoughts are of Advanced Member-only anthologies and the FWG Council (aka the ability to become an elected official). Really hoping to expand that in the near future.

#50

I think those all sound like great ideas, and I would be excited to see them.

I have an “if you build it, they will come” philosophy about leadership, especially in volunteer organizations. People in the guild might not Know what they want, (so waiting for members to ask for things or come up with ideas will not be rewarding) but they’ll respond to things that happen. I think reviving the Coyotls is a good start. Everyone loves awards :wink:

My strong feeling, based on experience, is that if you put stuff out there – the Tales of the Guild Anthology, for instance, that people will respond, but they won’t necessarily say, “This is what I want to happen.”

@Both: Under the assumption that members will look to you for leadership, ideas and activities, are you willing to try things (such as the items Poetigress mentioned) and see the response, rather than wait for members to ask?

#51

Has pretty much been my approach all along. While I have, as of late, asked for what members want to see, my approach has been in the style of a rapid-fire revival. I started the mentor program. I started the guild anthology. I rebuilt the forums. I added a category to the _____ of the Month items on the guild main page (Review of the Month, for those keeping score at home). Some have worked, such as the anthology, some haven’t, such as the mentor program. There does come to a point where throwing out a bunch of projects at random does little good if they aren’t ones the members are interested in, but something to go off of is better than nothing.

#52

Yes, absolutely (although as a caveat, my preference is always to first try out things that would give the most benefit for the least time/effort/money up front, unless I know I already have others on board to help).

I should mention that when I talk about member feedback, I don’t mean depending solely on members to volunteer ideas. I certainly want to leave that door open at all times, of course, but what I mean is, finding out what types of things members want/need the guild to focus on (like, helping writers promote their existing works vs. providing them new projects for exposure), and then letting that feedback influence which potential projects seem more likely to succeed and are worth going forward with.

But yeah, sometimes you have to just take the initiative and do things and see who shows up and what works and what doesn’t.

#53

Well, that’s counter-intuitive and raises a follow-up question: according to you, what exactly is the difference between a work that’s been “self-published” and a work that’s been made available for others to read online by its author?

#54

I consider a title to be “self-published” when it’s posted and available for purchase. Posting something online seems more like distribution than self-publishing in my eyes.

Though I’m wondering how this is relevant to the point.

#55

As guild leader, the Cóyotl Awards will be swayed by your power, so I see relevance in this.

So it must be published for pay? An author can’t self- publish a free story?

#56

I would plan to accept anything released in the correct years that’s of a furry nature into the Coyotls, so no, I don’t see relevance.

#57

Because you’ve stated that an author can’t self publish something on FA for free and be eligible for an award

#58

Oh, that’s not true. Sorry if it sounded like that. I don’t plan to restrict that. I’m just saying I don’t feel like post on FA is self-publishing. Items posted on FA, as long as they meet the subject and word-length criteria, would be eligible still.

#59

I will unfortunately be withdrawing myself from these elections. For more details, see the journal post here: http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/5745031/

This thread will be locked until a replacement candidate comes forth.