Furry Writers' Guild Forum

2014 Debate Thread

FWG Ideas and Feedback Guild Election
#21
That being said, do you have any plans for mentorship programs because I see it's a forum title but I've never met an actual mentor. I'd really love to be part of this program in the future when I'm a member and I'd really love to see what your plans for it are.

Well, the first thing is to figure out what’s working about the mentorship program and what isn’t, since it’s not something I was participating in, so I’d have to first talk to those who were/are. It’s sounding like we might need to go for more of a critique partner/writing buddy-type relationship, though, because from the discussion I saw back when it was introduced, it sounds like the potentially heavy time/effort requirements and more one-way nature of “mentorship” might have been turning some members off. At any rate, a lot of it’s going to depend on feedback and interest from members as to whether the mentorship program continues or gets transformed or scrapped altogether.

You have a giant to-do list. What is your most important goal for the future?

Two that are pretty close in importance for me are 1) overhauling the FWG website to something that would be easier for future presidents to maintain, because that’s probably the biggest long-term housekeeping issue that I think needs to be dealt with right now, and 2) reviving the Coyotl Awards.

As someone who is entering the time of his life when he feels confident enough to publish, I often find myself wondering how and where to go. I know there are lots of calls for submissions on the board (it has its own thread) but how will you improve the media attention of the guild and help us affiliate with furry businesses? IE. how will you put furry publishers in contact with furry writers in the future?

I’m actually going to cop out here and just agree with what Sean said above. :slight_smile: I don’t know that we can really put publishers in contact with writers; that sort of thing has to go through the publishers’ proper channels.

I would like to try to do things like interviews with the fandom’s publishers and editors, maybe to be published in the newsletter/blog, to help give writers a look at the publishing process from the other side of the desk, and to try to offer some general insight into what they’re looking for and what they’re not. As far as improving the media attention of the guild, I think reviving the Coyotls will definitely help, as well as some basic advertising like flyer distribution and possibly sponsored panels/readings at conventions. I’m not 100% sure what you mean by affiliating with furry businesses/publishers, but I would expect our relationship with them to be limited to just individual projects here and there, like interviews or publishing guild anthologies.

#22

+1     

#23

Where do you see furry fiction in fifty years? And what role, if any, do you think the FWG will play in getting it there?

#24

Was that to both of us, or one or the other?

#25

Both.

#26

Wow, fifty years… I’m not even comfortable predicting what fiction’s going to be like in fifty years, let alone furry fiction. :slight_smile: I don’t think it’s too farfetched to hope that it will at least be a recognized part of the larger sf/f genre spectrum, and considered as valid as, say, steampunk and urban fantasy and things like that are now. And it’s not improbable that, if that happens, writers will have more publishing options to choose from than just within the fandom, as small sf/f presses and potentially the larger publishers as well recognize it as a category of fiction. (That part, of course, depends on what happens to publishing in the next fifty years, and right now I wouldn’t even dare to predict the next five, with how quickly things are changing.)

As far as the FWG’s role, I think we have a part to play, though I think a lot of the evolution of furry fiction and the furry fandom in general is out of anyone’s control or even influence, and will take its own course. I do think we can play a role in gaining respect for furry fiction outside the fandom, by treating furry fiction as something to be respected and something that deserves a writers’ organization like the major genres. I also think we can provide good resources both for writers and readers outside the fandom, to give them some idea of the scope and variety of furry fiction, so that it’s not just seen as a few one-off books here and there or just a weird fan community thing, but as something that has the potential to reach a wider audience while still appealing to its core fandom. (And of course, encouraging quality in furry fiction is the starting point toward all of those things.)

#27

I think that in fifty year’s time, furry as a whole will not resemble anything that we have today. With that, it’s a bit hard to see where furry fiction, let alone fiction in general (as Poetigress mentioned) will be. I have to agree with Poetigress in that furry will most likely be recognized more within the sf/f markets by that time (and in that trying to predict the not-so-near future’s outcome is quite an uncomfortable task). I still think that furry erotica will be its own niche market that isn’t really touched by anyone other than specialized publishers, but at least the fiction itself will be out there.

As far as the FWG’s role in everything, I believe it to be key to aiding and developing a wide variety of furry writers who can produce quality work. The more quality writers we can gather, the better the future looks. I don’t think it’ll ever become as big as a lot of the other genre guilds and groups, but if the guild focuses on living by its mission statement, it can definitely become a known force in the writing world.

#28

Also reading :D 

#29

Glad to see more people are paying attention. Hopefully all guild members that are just reading and watching the election plan on voting!

#30

So, I recently joined the forums and am still checking out what the FWG is all about. I feel a little uncomfortable being here as I don’t feel like I have standing to be in the discussion. However, both candidates seem to desire some feedback from non-members, so let me give it a go.

@Both: I am someone who is only connected to a very small subset of the furry fandom, and who does not intend to publish his works. At the same time, I am pursuing a place to hone my writing skills and to get involved with other writers. What should be my relationship and that of people like me to the FWG be in your mind?

@Both: What are the benefits of holding a real-time writing group? Is this idea for those looking for general advice, or would the group read passages and give their thoughts on them? How many participants would it take such a group to qualify as a success?

#31

You essentially define why I want to open the guild up a bit more. There are several talented writers who just don’t want to be published. Why exclude them when we have so much to offer? This is also why I would like to alter the Coyotl’s to allow winners to become what is currently an “Associate Member”. Get the ‘perks’ of being a full-fledged members without having to be published.

To answer your question, I feel that all writers within the fandom should be active within the confines of the guild, member or not. Non-members should start and add to discussions, be involved with projects, and aid others who need help with their own work.

I know you mentioned this idea in your introduction thread, but is this a response to my campaign announcement about it? Or just a general inquiry?

Either way, I believe it could be all of the above, and more. The writing group could be useful for running writing excercises, asking questions spur-of-the-moment, and talk about the latest book that just came out. Doesn’t have to have a set theme, though if the idea takes off and gets bigger, we could have times dedicated to specific things.

As far as a number to make it work…as long as there’s a discussion between more than two people going on, I would call it a success. Any discussion is better than none.

#32

I meant my question for both you and PT, as you both have stated you want to form such a group in your respective journals. If you can, I’d like you to address why you would want to host a real-time, irc style group, rather than a forum post-based one. In the past, Ihave only been involved in forum-based groups.

#33

Call me old-fashioned, but I’m the type of person who likes going to see people face-to-face rather than sending an email. It’s that instantaneous connection factor that makes me feel like the whole thing is more personalized.

#34

First, I respect that not every writer is interested in publication. Many writers in the fandom write purely for personal enjoyment and/or sharing with readers through places like FA or their own websites, and there’s nothing wrong with that. The forums provide a lot of opportunities for social interaction with other writers, a way to give and receive critique, and links to resources to help all writers hone their craft, whatever their ultimate goals are.

As I’ve said before, though, no organization can realistically be everything to everyone, and since the guild was founded and designed primarily to serve writers who are seeking publication, naturally a good portion of the discussions and resources are going to wind up skewed toward those types of goals. So while all writers are welcome, I hope it’s understandable that we may not necessarily serve every single writer’s needs equally. Again, though, writing is writing, no matter what happens to it afterward, and certainly I think a lot of the craft-based information on the website and in the forums can still be very helpful in that way. (I’d actually like to add more craft-based resource-type links to the website.)

What are the benefits of holding a real-time writing group? Is this idea for those looking for general advice, or would the group read passages and give their thoughts on them? How many participants would it take such a group to qualify as a success?

Well, what I’ve been talking about are two things:

  1. A real-time chat (weekly or on some other regular schedule), open to everyone who wants to drop by, probably on a set topic
  2. Finding ways to facilitate the formation of writing group(s), either to interact here on the forums or in some other manner the members of the group would prefer

The main benefit of 1) would be the more casual, social, and spontaneous feeling that comes from interacting real-time instead of in a forum. It could very well be helpful on a practical level, in terms of getting people into discussions that might help them on some aspect of craft or publishing or some issue with their current works-in-progress – things people might not feel deserve a whole thread, but would ask in conversation – but it would also be helpful in terms of giving everyone on the forums a more low-key way to interact, the way the shout box has already done in terms of general social interaction. And I think it’d be fun, personally. 8)

To expand on 2), I don’t know that I’m envisioning an FWG writing group as one big thing, but more along the lines of making it easy for members who are interested in being part of a group to find other writers with similar schedules and similar desires for what they want in a group. For some people, that might be a critique group where people post whenever they have something for crit; for others, it might be more like, show up with something for crit every month or you’re out. Others might want more of a social/support group more than a crit-based one.

#35

I’m confused by this – how would an author win a Coyotl Award without having been published? I would think that it would be hard to nominate or vote for a work that hasn’t been published.

#36

I think that Sean is making a distinction between published by an outside party or self-published. Currently self-published authors are not eligible for guild membership, and I am unsure of their status for Coyotl nomination.

As I've said before, though, no organization can realistically be everything to everyone, and since the guild was founded and designed primarily to serve writers who are seeking publication, naturally a good portion of the discussions and resources are going to wind up skewed toward those types of goals. So while all writers are welcome, I hope it's understandable that we may not necessarily serve every single writer's needs equally. Again, though, writing is writing, no matter what happens to it afterward, and certainly I think a lot of the craft-based information on the website and in the forums can still be very helpful in that way. (I'd actually like to add more craft-based resource-type links to the website.

I think it entirely reasonable that the guild be focused on serving those whom it was founded to serve. However, it seems to me that the difference between your proposal and that of Sean is largely semantic. Personally, saying that I am a “future member” (designated by the forum) is problematic since I do not intend to fulfil the conditions of becoming a member, and being a “non-member”(designated by the guild) really doesn’t strike me as very welcoming. While it is true that granting a low-level membership to people like me is mostly a psychological incentive, it would give recognition to the desire to be part of the discussion, rather than someone who is completely uninterested in the guild.

If the issue over membership is the main point in contention between the two candidates, than I suspect that the following question must be answered.

@Both: Is it nesesary that in order for this site to provide top-teir resources and encouragement to writers who seek publication/are published, that membership be granted only to those who are published. Why or why not?

#37

Two self-published works have already won Coyotl Awards – one for Best General Novel and one for Best General Novella. Which actually means that 1/3 of all Coyotl Awards given out so far have gone to self-published works.

#38

Marked, one of the main reasons for the publication requirements is because we needed something objective (or at least, as objective as we could reasonably get) to determine the overall quality of writers’ work, and requiring a writer to have been published by somebody else was one of the easiest ways to fill that need. We may not necessarily need to require publication in order to provide top-tier resources for writers, but that’s not the sole function of the guild. One of the probably lesser-known benefits of the FWG is that its list of members provides readers (inside or outside the fandom) with a starting point where they can find works of presumably higher quality than you’d normally find just trying to browse FA or the like. One of the biggest problems for furry readers – and why a lot of them give up on furry fiction altogether – is because they can’t find the wheat among the chaff. Restricting membership to writers who have been to some extent vetted by publication helps keep the guild from just becoming another long list of writers for people to wade through in order to find things that are even proofread or grammatically correct, let alone worth reading.

I’m sorry that that makes us seem unwelcoming, but again, any organization isn’t going to be suited to everyone.

#39

My changes to the awards would make it so any furry-related work can be nominated, anywhere from published to posted on FA. Thus if someone self-publishes a novel or posts a serial online, it can be nominated in its proper category. With all of the, lets face it, crap that gets published (I’m talking about in general, not towards the fandom or anything in particular), it’s possible and very likely that there are several gems that have not been published, whether by author’s choice or by some other reason.

Because I would like to reiterate. Being published does not mean a writer or their work is good. It just means a publisher was willing to pay for it.

#40

To reiterate once again from my previous post, being published does not in any way signify that the author’s work is good or that they are a good writer. While it means that they are the majority of the time, there are numerous cases of this just not being true. Publishers want what will sell, good or not. For example, once Twilight became a big thing, there was an explosion of paranormal teen romance. Is all of it bad? Probably not. Is a large chunk of it bad? Most likely.

I do agree with Poetigress in that publication is the easiest way of determining if a writer is of quality. However, it is by no means the most effective. This is why I would like to implement my changes with the Coyoyls. If an unpublished work is good enough to win an award like that, then the author sure as anything deserves to be in the guild.

So no, I don’t believe that it’s necessary to cater to the published. I think it should be to cater to all writers who aspire to be better. In a way, I believe it will prevent published authors from getting on a high-horse. Maybe we can make winning a Coyotl Award more of an aspiration to achieve rather than getting published. At least that would be 100% based on the merit of work and not its ability to be sold.

Oh, and one more thing. I don’t think that opening up the guild will turn it into a “long list of writers”. I think that if an author truly wants to get better, they will come looking and become active in the guild, whether it be through the forums, a writing group (another reason for this), or some other way. They will look towards those who have established themselves for advice(hence why I do not plan on listing the names of all of the basic members on the website–only the Associate/Award Members and Advanced Members).