Well, I was just thinking fandom/animal as the theme - basically the same thing [adjective][species] did.
I think it would be a bit early to do a best-of, I’d put in a solid number of books before that 
as a start, the Seasons theme would be really good. There’s a lot that can be done with them.
Poetigress’ right though, the audience must be considered carefully.
If it has only animal-based poetry in it, we can go mainstream and have a really (basically nonexsistent) niche market. It might have some more interesting material, because it would attract poetry writers who’re into poetry not because of the theme, but because they like poetry.
If it is furry-themed, it will have a larger appeal, but will be relegated to the fandom, and written by it. More people will be into it because of the theme, and less because of the poetry.
With both furry and non-furry poetry in it, I can guarantee it will still be appreciated only by the fandom. There is always a label attached to it, and that’s not something people would overlook. BUT we’d have the opportunity to receive works from both inside and outside of it. Still, it would only appeal to the fandom.
But my opinion is to go with the third option.
Because as an artistic product, the whole ‘observed’ -> ‘personified’ -> ‘humanized’ format sounds really interesting.
And I like interesting stuff.
Well, here I am!
First thing I noticed, particularly with the [adjective][species] poetry collection was that there was a bit of a gap between the more abstract poems, both in style and topic, and the more literal ones that explicitly death with con-going. The danger with having lots of thematic splits, as well as the potential issue for chapters, is that instead of seeming like a unified whole, it may break the anthology down into perhaps unrelated, or loosely related segments.
I think it would be helpful in defining the anthology in first by saying what it is not, and shall not be. Once those things are established, you can work from there. Is the aim to showcase poetry about the fandom, or to showcase the work of the fandom? The two lead in quite different directions. Another question, would be what do you want the tone to be? Poems about the fandom may sound quite metafictive, which can put people off. It can also be problematic, as, in filling out an anthology, would you stand a realistic chance of getting a decent spread of poems about the fandom that each say different things? Of course, the submissions may always surprise, but still, something to considering.
As a Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter idea has been thrown about here, this may work as an internal, abstract mode of progression to arrange submissions inside one publication. It does not have to be an explicit part of the call, but more a reflection of where to put what. A story that is youthful in tone, subject, or imagery can go in spring. A poem that is bleak and about less bright things can go in Winter. Of course, it wouldn’t fit as neatly as that, but it’s a possibility.
I think it may be better to organise the poetry collection, and promote it, as simply showcasing the works of poets within the fandom. That gives a nice, simple aim you can fire off to people when you’re trying to promote it. You can say that this is demonstrating that poetry is not all the stuffy, old sonnets and stanzas you were forced to study at school, but how people today use poetry to make something that expresses something deeper. Poetry is after all, a celebration of language, it’s not about meaning, its more about making language itself beautiful.
Perhaps the theme would be best described, at the moment, as purely anthropomorphic poetry. Are we looking for what people see in animals, what they feel in response to seeing animals, what they idealise - how animals are used, as foils for our own emotions? As the stopping gap for our own inadequacies? As a source of beauty? As teachers? As spiritual icons?
I think this is going to be pretty broad anyway.
In terms of getting this off the ground once all the prior groundwork has been done, we can go around on Twitter and promote the collection as a retweet. If everyone on the guild retweets it, then we can hopefully get it looking viable enough (the more its retweeted, the more likely it shall be retweeted again) that other people signal boost it. We can also ask friends, or people with followers but who are not selling anything, to help us out if they wish (no harm in asking, worst you can get is no), which would gain further exposure. The greater the exposure, the potential greater readership. The thing is, a retweet, a signal boost of a journal on FA, all these things gets the collection out there.
Getting artists to contribute will be a good idea, as visual elements will help entice readers. That being said, we’d need to find a way of reimbursing the artists for doing this. If its going to be a charitable sale, then that may work, but still, we’re asking people to help when art is their main job, so we may have to be prepared to invest some money in this ourselves. How much purely depends on what the collection is and who we get, so before we go off to artists, the groundwork needs to be done.
Hmm, and I was just thinking, since some studies say language is the barrier separating humans and non-human animals, we could organise the anthology as trying to use language to bridge that gap?
A lot of good thinking and ideas there, Televassi. I think you’re probably right that “poems by furries” is an easier scope to fill than “poems about animals” or “poems about furry fandom.” On the other hoof, I’m not sure that makes it any different from your run of the mill poetry collection put out by any social group. (Yes, there are such things, just like fund raiser cookbooks, and often printed by the same specialist printers.)
I might suggest that we just say “poems by furries on anthropomorphic themes” and leave it at that. Dividing the actual publication into sections to group related works would be fine, depending on what we get that’s good enough to print.
I’m imagining something fairly slim to start with, probably about the size of a New Fables or Reynard’s if you’ve seen those. I’m guessing we could cover printing costs from FurPlanet or someone similar with a price well under $15 and still have something to donate to a selected cause.
Finding the cause that everyone can agree on may be harder than getting submissions and editing the volume. :-\
Animal shelters?
I think one thing we can agree on is that they should all be animal-related in some way, shape, or form, be it the animal mind or an appreciation for an animal in their various shapes and forms. I’ve read poetry since I was young, and had always preferred themed collections over collections of just one poet where you would get a mish-mash of themes. There’s nothing to separate the collection from just another collection if it’s just a bunch of random poems from a community. By holding to the animal theme, it can better reinforce that this collection is from the furry community. I confess a bout of warm fuzzies when I read GeorgeSquares poem of why a weasel. There’s something unique and special and worth empathizing with that can’t be found in any collection outside of the fandom.
Which leads me to the big question that we all seem to be hedging is do we want to leave mainstream open as an option, or do we want this to be exclusively for the fandom?
On the one hand, we reach a larger audience with yet another collection of poetry about animals, but we lose some of the qualities that would make it a bit more unique, such as why we choose the sonas we choose, or things along those lines.
On the other hand, we keep a bit more of what would make the collection unique to the fandom, something furries wouldn’t be able to find anywhere else, yet we lose a much larger audience.
Thoughts?
Sidenote: I actually like some of the old, stuffy ways of poetry. There’s such an elegance that’s so hard to find these days. It’s why Shakespeare’s sonnets and poems far, far older than that are still enjoyed to this day. I think a combination of the classic styles, abstract ways, and vibrant new forms would be a good show of how poetry doesn’t have to be a single way. Altivo’s poem for [adj][spe] felt like it worked just fine next to Tricky Fox and even Stray Dogs and such. They did an amazing job selecting a wide variety with just a handful of poetry.
Networking and advertising has never been too much a problem for me. I made one tweet about this thread, and suddenly there were about 20 guests checking it out. That’s just for a tweet asking about people’s interest in a poetry collection. I’m sure we can get it that much more organized by the time we start asking for submissions, and even more once we are ready to sell.
One of the authors I had mentioned owes me about $200 worth of art >.> I was going to save it for personal projects, but I should be able to get some greyscale and linework out of her for it. For Christmas, a friend gave me a ‘free art’ coupon thing from one of his friends at the university who looks really decent. I’d have to see more of their work and to what extent they’re willing to go, but it’s another option. The coverart will probably be the only real expense. I could talk to a friend who I’m hoping to do the coverart for Fragments, especially if we’re looking at doing this for charity, and see what kind of prices she’d be talking. She was willing to cut me a deal for Fragments, so she might for this, too.
As for charities, I think anything that’s pro-animal would be agreeable. I’d say Point Defiance Zoo since they’ve managed to bring the red wolf from the very brink of extinction and are still working hard to get more into the wild, but I’m probably biased X3 Perhaps something national, such as the ASPCA? Or if anyone knows of anything more international? I would love to do something for the polar bears, personally, but that has very, very personal reasons behind it >.<
Gosh, there’s been a lot of really great movement on this! So, after reading everyone else’s stuff, I have an idea for a theme, if we really want a somewhat-direct theme for the book.
I’m currently working on a set of poems about all the different fursonae I’ve inhabited over my time in the fandom. It’s a lot of fun to think about why I chose things at certain eras of my life, and why I moved away from them. It also helps me just think about what I was doing at those ages in my life that those things made sense at the time, even if they, now, seem silly.
So, while a seasonal theme would be cool (and I was thinking, if we went with Seasons, why not have it split into four chapters versus planning four books, perhaps to draw more people in if they don’t have a good idea for Spring–but that’s something else), I was thinking, what about a book wherein the poets all muse on their current or past fursona.
This means, you could either write about the animal you are/were from a naturalistic stance, from a human-in-the-fandom stance, or from some more abstract idea of what that animal means culturally. That way, you not only have the thoughtful part of poetry, but it’s going to be inherently meaningful to the person writing it.
At least, I think so.
The other other idea would be to do something on a more frame-story theme, a la the Canterbury Tales or the Decameron. I know, that might limit others’ contributions to it, but if we, instead of thinking we need to talk about animals so literally or furries so literally, thought about the commonality our group of people share with others, in some way, that could be a really fun topic to plumb the depths of.
Also, I think we’re denying ourselves the idea that we could or couldn’t cross over into other groups. Just because we’re writing about furry doesn’t mean it’d be inaccessible to other readers. Even very specific poems usually have wide appeal with their evocative natures or emotions. So even if we wrote about the fandom, I think that could still work to be an interesting thing to show off in other venues.
Just an idea! Whatever we end up on, I really can’t wait.
If we write about fursonas, I can’t contribute and NOBODY outside the fandom will read that 
I’m sorry - I really like the concept, but as a first impact it would severely limit our audience (beside the fact that a large percentage will interpret it as a variation of self-insert fan fiction). I’d keep the idea for a special volume.
The Decameron scheme (sorry for Chaucer, but medieval Italian literature makes up half my background) is an interesting concept. It would force us to find a narrative framing - maybe in prose?
Sadly, I agree with MrMandolino on this one. Thinking back to the threat were we were discussing fursonas, some of the points we identified there surrounding the fandom’s practices and lexicon, as well as how varied people’s thoughts and approaches to fursonas are, it does place the collection in danger of becoming too niche. Poetry already doesn’t have the same readership as prose, so we’d want to do all we can to counteract this. If we’re looking to do this for charity, then it would make sense to make the appeal as broad as possible. In short, the question boils down to are people willing to spend money on a collection about some people musing on personal characters? Ultimately, the choice is up to Munchkin as she’s the one who proposed the collection in the first place.
As for a Canterbury Tales style arrangement, I wonder whether it would work, as those Tales all have a narrative too them (which can be worked out in poetry), though, we want to limit the prose, as it would somewhat diminish the point of a poetry collection.
I think, we can start to see a bit of factionalism developing here, along the lines of what we’d do if we were in the hot-seat here. I think it may be an idea to come away from this one for a bit. The initial ask, whether there was interest, has been answered. Now, we just need the editor of the collection to finalise the details, and announce the theme that they want.
Just hopping on real quick because I think we stumbled on the perfect charity if we go that route.
I’ll read and comment on replies when we’re not rushing out the door >.<
There are others. World Wildlife Federation comes to mind. On a national or North American scope, Defenders of Wildlife is also a good choice.
I don’t think poems about fursonas is a bad idea-- and frankly, I think it would be in our interest to write for the fandom to start, or else we might as well call this writers-guild-who-so-happen-to-be-furries. Most of us already write (and publish) outside of the fandom, and we are connected here by an interest in furry and its community. There might be a way to hit two birds with one stone, however, considering I certainly want to write for my furry online community as well as glean interest from people on the outside.
If the quality of the poetry is good, then people will want to read. [adj.][species] often hones in on things that are unique to the furry subculture, such as fursonas, and apply them to wider universal concepts that many people can relate to, such as Jm’s article on virtual identities.
I think PT’s idea about choosing something general like animals is also a good option to get a poetry community up and running, because it’s not overly specific, and anybody can come up with a wide variety of approaches for applying animals to a poem. To me, “Animals and identity” seems like a general category that is also specific enough to apply to fursonas if the author so chooses, and asks for some sort of self-reflection or observation that piques the writer’s interest when it comes to identity and animals.
I’d like to see the start up of a poetry engine in the fandom that includes furry topics that we could perhaps sell at conventions.(And adult poetry is definitely something to consider at some point, since it is regularly published in Heat already.) We could build upon what people enjoy to establish a bigger poetry community in the fandom that both encourages better writing and fosters a supportive environment-- sort of how spec fic writers made worldcon into something they care about deeply because they put so much care and effort into their own community.
Holy crap o.o This thread has ballooned a bit! Before it goes any further, I would like to map out exactly what I’m leaning toward. Let’s see if I can do this in an organized way that actually makes sense.
Theme: Animals
Sub-theme: Outside observation of animals, in the mind of animals, symbolism of animals*
Rating: GA
Line Count: 5-50**
Publisher: Undecided***
Payment: A copy of the book. All profit will be donated to charity.
Charity: Undecided****
Editors: Altivo and myself.*****
*Better wording is welcome. The first might allow room for fandom observations, though including fandom-related material is still up for debate. The last should allow for works about sonas, totem animals, spirit animals, etc.
**Want to allow for haikus, but they have to be something amazing. Want to allow for longer works, but we don’t need novels listed. Suggestions on better wording or line limits is welcome.
***Obviously, open to suggestions. Still have the prod the ones that have already been suggested.
****Something international and dealing with animals. If need be, will either put it up for a vote or say screw it and have my parents decide 
*****Might take another volunteer. Altivo really knows his poetry, and I’d like to think I have decent taste even if I don’t understand all the mechanics. It’ll depend on the workload.
So, before things continue to get a bit heated, can we at least agree to this much?
Big project indeed. So are you offering to be the compiler/editor/publisher (or publisher liaison?)
In general, I think this is on the right track. A broad theme that allows many directions and decide how to group or arrange when you see what comes in. Length, maybe allow for more than 50 lines or at least say you will consider it. I don’t imagine you will see a thousand line submission, but one that spans a couple of pages is quite likely.
Short pieces such as haiku would be fine, but encourage writers of these to submit in multiples so they can be grouped together.
Fandom subjects, such as fursonas or convention scenes are fine as long as they don’t lose sight of the animal imagery.
The animal connection in all accepted work should be clear enough for non-furry readers to see it.
I mentioned earlier in the chat that a magazine format could be applicable, too, to keep productions costs down. It would be a cheap way to gauge interest for poetry at conventions before putting out a lot of soft covers.
If you need another volunteer editor, I would be happy to help, and could try to help you keep the project manageable.
Altivo, it seems that’s where the sticks are falling, so to speak X3 I already know I don’t know enough about poetry to be the only editor on this project, which is why I’m hoping to recruit you and one other who’s more knowledgeable than I. If I’m the one to officially compile and organize all this though, I’m up for the task.
I’m glad the theme is being met with approval. I feel like it would give the chance for the collection to take on a life of its own while still keeping it from devolving into all sorts of chaos. I really like your other suggestions as well- definitely points I would like to see included in the final draft of the submission call.
George, I think I remember that conversation. Folks seemed of the consensus though that it might be setting up the collection to fail. That was also a fuzzy day for me though, so ignore me if I’m wrong in that x.x Either way, I’m happy to add you to the list of possible volunteers, meaning I should probably start said list X3 Thank you very much for offering your help and know-how.
While I’m sure you don’t need everyone jumping out of the woodwork at you to volunteer, I mean, I did curate the [adjective][species] collection, so. I’m also happy to help!
Otherwise, yeah, the theme of Animals (in the vaguest sense) I think works. I guess the only thing I worry about is coming across as, maybe, too bland. Truncating our voice as furries who write poetry is something I’m more than slightly nervous about, but good content hopefully will win the day regardless of topic. While poems about animals are great, I think furry is more than that and if we try to shy away from fandom-related material, maybe we’re doing a disservice to who we are as a collective.
Either way, excited!
Something I’m curious about is, would you publish poems from many authors, say 20, 25 or more and choosing the best they have to offer? The reason I say this is because I’m reading a book here, as part of my DW journal celebration of cowboy poetry for National Poetry month. It’s a remarkable book featuring just three or four poems from twelve poets. It’s also illustrated with black and white photos of the poets on the ranches.
Between Earth and Sky, Poets of the Cowboy West, edited by Anne Heath Widmark, W.W.Norton & Company, New York, 1995
I’m also wondering how you can motivate people to submit their best work. I think if you want a collection to be successful, it has to be something that really grabs people’s attention. I also suspect that any prospective publisher will demand the same.
It’s why I went with the sub-themes I did. I think with Humans Observing Animals, there’s the opportunity for some clear fandom material in so far as furries’ appreciation for animals. With Animal Symbolism, there’s plenty of room for fursonas and why we choose the avatars we do, and what they mean to us spiritually. It’s not so much an attempt to truncate as an attempt to leave options open while keeping some form of organization X3
If I get enough fandom-related material on this first go, and the collection does decently enough, then I want to try to tackle a collection that’s purely fandom-based. I believe that it would give those in the fandom something they couldn’t find anywhere else, while possibly being seen as a curiosity to mainstream readers- especially with how more and more are poking at the community to see what noises we make. However, I have no clue how many poets in the community will be able to produce fandom-related material (I myself have never ventured into that area of poetry despite having written poetry for many more years than stories) and I don’t want to close off the poetry that’s animal-related even if not fandom-related.
Also, it would be an honor to have your help with this. The poetry you chose for [adj][spe] shows a wonderfully wide variety of style and theme, as well as great quality. I will be happy to put you on the list. Thank you very much!
I’m going to encourage multiple submissions and, though I don’t think we’ll be asking for first rights glances at Altivo we will ask for a combination of old and new. Still gotta figure out wordign though. I’m not entirely sure how to get folks to submit their best beyond that, though, so I’m definitely open to suggestions for that. I do know I want to get linework done for the interior of the book. I know a good number of artists thanks to spending so many years on FA, so I’m going to see who might be willing to donate before throwing money at it.
I asked Fuzzwolf some things about the business side of publishing, and I got some good information about printer rates. Since poetry sales are still a mystery in the fandom, and you’re sort of testing the waters, you can go for a low production cost to make as much money as you can for your charity of choice.
You can still have a nice booklet for cheap with perfect binding in statement size (which is 5½" × 8½"). Fuzz said perfect bound books usually require a minimum of 24 pages, and a 24 page book will have an estimated production cost of 3 dollars per book. Selling poetry books at 5 dollars for charity could pay for your production costs and remain relatively cheap. If you sold the book for 10 dollars, though, you could make much more profit from fewer sales at the risk of fewer people buying the book. It all comes down to whether you think a lot of people would buy the poetry for cheap (especially if you mentioned it was for charity) or want to bank on a smaller, dedicated group of buyers.
I would aim for around 24 pages of material just to test the waters and to keep costs low, still.